I have to respect a company that comes publicly looking for people to talk to about any concerns. Avvo did just that. Conrad Saam, who is Director of Marketing, wrote a comment here on my blog offering to speak with me. After a few stops and starts (on my part, not Conrad’s) we finally found a few moments to speak today.
The world is a small place!
When I first mentioned on Facebook that I would be speaking to Conrad a friend from high school asked if I knew that Conrad had gone to the same school as we. You have to understand how strange this is. I went to a high school near Princeton New Jersey. My class had about 85 people and my whole school had about 700. I moved away when I was in 9th grade. Sure enough it was true. Conrad went to the same school, he graduated 2 years after I would have. We remembered some of the same people. One person we both remembered specifically because he played soccer (I remembered someone had stomped on his leg, breaking it badly, once I mentioned it Conrad remembered too.) We also remembered him because the same person played trumpet while I played cornet. You out there Leroy?
Anyway.
Avvo
We discussed the vast growth Avvo has experienced over the past 5 years, how much it is being used by laypeople to find lawyers (and doctors) and how it really has become crucial to claim your profile if at all possible.
I asked why Avvo doesn’t allow people to disclaim their profiles. Conrad gave me some explanations, but in the end I am not sure I agreed with them. I am not going to post his explanations here because I’m also not sure I would say it correctly. I do however welcome a guest post from Conrad or Avvo on the subject here (or in the comments.)
I really think if you claim your profile and decide you can’t keep it up, or are just unhappy with it, you should be able to unclaim it. If you get in trouble after you have claimed your profile, even if you unclaim it you would still be listed as someone who got in trouble. So we have to agree to disagree here. I don’t see changing my mind and I don’t see Avvo changing its policy.
We also talked about the realities of search engine optimization. I mentioned my blog post on organic versus inorganic SEO and Conrad seemed to be right with me.
Tidbits on my score
I mentioned to Conrad that my score seemed to have jumped suddenly which surprised me. I mused whether it had something to do with an award I had won. He said that was probably the case. He explained that if it was something they didn’t recognize it they would have their folks research it and then assess its value. The award actually is a pretty prestigious one (I won it for helping PBI create its Simulcast network) and so it makes sense it would be accorded a lot of points.
What about the business person/lawyer?
I expressed concern to Conrad about the lawyer who is more a business person than a lawyer. We frequently complain that a lot of lawyers don’t know how to run a business, but a lot of successful smaller firms have a lawyer who is really focused on the business of law as opposed to the practice. Those lawyers simply won’t have a good profile on Avvo. Conrad acknowledged this concern but also noted that since those attorneys weren’t the ones who were going to be hired to handle the cases, it would be best to focus on listings of the attorneys who will. Those attorneys will have the scores you want to encourage people to hire them.
Avvo is here to stay
Of late, I have been reading a lot of posts about Avvo, positive and negative, but here’s the reality. Avvo is popular, it is high up in search engine results and people are using it to find lawyers. Your best bet, if you have the resume to back it up, is to claim your profile and complete it.
Conrad confirmed for me, for the most part Avvo can only base your score upon your years of experience and whether you have ever gotten in trouble. The rest is going to be filled in by you. So if you want a good score, be sure to fill your profile up with everything you have done, this in turn will help you to increase your score.
Also, don’t forget about getting endorsements from lawyers. Don’t think you will get from 6 to 10 with a lot of endorsements though.
I thank Conrad for taking the time to talk with me. I already actually had a pretty good impression of Avvo. I don’t share a lot of the concerns that others share and our conversation was both enjoyable and useful. And again, I would more than welcome a guest post from Avvo on my blog.
Major addict of the site, loads of your articles have truly helped me out. Awaiting improvements!
Glad you find my blog helpful. Thanks.
I’m completely new to AVVO, what does it mean to “claim” your profile? What happens if you do or don’t do so? What does it cost? Do they maximize your web site on search engines?
Hi Randy. If you go to Avvo you will see an option to claim your profile, which means to take over the listing Avvo has for you. Avvo has a listing for most attorneys. If you don’t claim it nothing happens except it will note you will be listed, it will note if you have ever been in trouble and how long you have been in practice. There is a free version and a pay version. You can list your website in your profile and Avvo itself comes up very high in search engine results. It provides another place for potential clients to find you.
I enjoyed meeting you yesterday on your last day at PBI. I am just starting to delve into your site looking for pearls which you seem to have in abundance. Also, I took a look at AVVO. The site is at best misleading and worst, a waste of time. I toured the family law section for York most of whose practitioners I know fairly well after 33 years here. Some of the top family law lawyers in York are not included and one mediocre is rated above average. A lot of the information seems self-serving for one individual. In my opinion, it seems that the only accurate rating for lawyers would be client testimonials because quite a lot goes into the successful representation of a client such that the client leaves satisfied enough to write a positive recommendation for the lawyer. Also, negative testimonials should not be taken too seriously because more than a few clients have no idea what the real cause of their problems(s) is(are).
It was good to meet you as well. I would say for any individual seeking to hire an attorney additional research is required beyond Avvo. Any information put there, like any marketing, is controlled by the person who enters it and therefore by nature self serving. The people filling out their information need to be honest. If they are lying it is an advertising ethical violation. The problem with just dismissing Avvo is that lay people are using it. Because of its popularity, whether you like Avvo or not, it therefore requires a response. As far as missing, if you mean the attorney is not listed on the site at all, that is a problem with Avvo. If by missing you mean they haven’t claimed their ratings, that is simply their choice or they are unfamiliar with the site. There is a big difference between whether Avvo should exist at all and whether it is necessary to interact with it simply because it exists and it is popular. An attorney doesn’t have to claim his or her rating, of course. But Avvo can be useful simply as another way to be found online.